bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard

Her funeral services attracted a huge crowd of mourners. This is the site where Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard were stabbed by the Zodiac Killer. A passing fisherman alerted authorities and Bryan and Cecelia were later taken to a hospital. ASSAILANT: Just dont make any fast moves come up slowly. On September 27, 1969, 22-year-old Cecilia Shepard and 20-year-old Bryan Hartnell were having a picnic at Lake Berryessa in Napa County. Sometime around 6:00 PM, Cecelia noticed a man walking among the trees but the couple dismissed him as harmless. There is nothing to worry about all I want is your money. Excellent observations, Richard! January 2017 Carolyn and her family and the family of other victims are just as much Zodiac's victims.The Berryessa murders have always been the most on my mind because they were so "personal" The others seemed more like "hits". One uses "bleeding", one uses "blood". New Canaan Letters Authorities recognized the symbol as the signature of a murderer who sent taunting letters to Bay Area newspapers and claimed that he was responsible for the shootings of two young couples. May 2020 In any case, hed already gotten what he wanted: infamy. The losing of control, with the recent reference to knife attacks, could indicate that the Belli Letter was insinuating two more attacks (nine and ten) on two more women or girls in San Jose. January 2016 September 2017 A sobering missive to remember as we trade banter back and forth on the board. BRYAN: Come on we could be out here for a long time and it could get cold at night. The film shows the young couple cuddling by a lake when they are approached by a masked gunman who then tied them up and stabbed them. BRYAN: We arent going anywhere Anyway, I dont think that its necessary ( or Aw, come on, we dont want to. ) Here is the Bleeding Knife of Zodiac and Benicia note side by side. Shepard later died, but not before giving police a description of the assailant. I always considered the switch from gun to knife was driven by the lack of front page coverage, so the adding of 6:30, by knife was effectively a statement of "remember the San Jose murders, do I get headline coverage now". Cecelia Shepard died, but Bryan Hartnell survived. College students Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell were attacked by a masked man at Lake Berryessa in 1969. From this point, there are conflicting stories. He now apparently needed to implement extremely bizarre behavior in order to achieve satisfaction. It's a massive body . And this Aug.4th article,at least,offers us an explanation. They prefer warmer temperatures and drier, Gardening Tips for Growing Tomatoes | Everything You Need to Know, Gardening is an incredibly rewarding activity, and tomatoes are one of the most popular crops to grow. Shepard died within 48 hours of the stabbing. December 2020 September 2013 On September 27th, 1969, Bryan Hartnell, 20, and Cecelia Shepard, 22, were picnicking near Lake Berryessa when they were attacked by a man wearing an executioner's mask with a circle-cross symbol on it. The couple was laying on a blanket in a remote area of the lake's shore. Shepard unfortunately died of her injuries. Earl Van Best Jr When this attack was aborted, he found the next best thing by writing on the car door with the 6:30 reference. Hartnell het agt steekwonde aan sy rug oorleef, maar Shepard het twee dae later gesterf. Another source says that Bryan had no idea the attacker was going to actually attack until he was stabbed for the first time. It was simply the way he's managed to cope after all these years. On September 27, 1969, Bryan Hartnell, 20, and Cecelia Shepard, 22, were picnicking near Lake Berryessa in Napa, California when they were accosted by a man wearing an executioner's mask. Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell The third set of confirmed victims of the The Zodiac Killer. It thoroughly depends on whether you see any correlation or not. The man kept stabbing until Bryan feigned death. April 2014 May 2019 ASSAILANT: No. ( He then opened cartridge or whatever ) It's this loser who needs to be found and, if he's still alive, made to pay for his crimes. She saw a man as he moved behind a tree. How long have you known about this ? Bryan Hartnell and Dave Slaight. Six and a half months later he would follow this up with a second attempted double murder at Blue Rock Springs Park on July 4th 1969, in which sadly, Darlene Ferrin would succumb to her devastating injuries. Internet Articles The Celebrity Cypher Cecelia Shepard ran into her old friend Bryan Hartnell at Pacific Union College in San Francisco on September 27, 1969. https://zodiackillersite.com/download/file.php?id=5604 ). He is also a contributing author for the eZine True Crime: Case Filesand the two volume collection of essays titled A History of Evil in Popular Culture, both available at Amazon.com. Click to enlarge photograph. Help us build our profile of Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell! Click to enlarge photograph. From now on it's ''plainly the case'' that that is how the Zodiac came up with '' 6:30 ''. He took out a black marker and wrote a message on the passenger door of Bryans white Volkswagen Karmann Ghia. For the legion of Zodiac Killer hunters around the world, it seems like his many taunting letters must surely provide a clue to his identity. and more from FamousFix.com, See August 2017 I am sure for a brief moment he could see the headlines flash in front of his eyes: The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. Cecelia Shepard at Pacific Union College during the '68-69 school year, then "more recently a senior at the University of California at Riverside" Saechao/Saelee Murders At 7:40 PM, the Napa Police Department received a call from a telephone booth at a local car wash. Did the bunched up sweater shirt hide anything sinister? On his belt, a sheath held a foot-long knife and the holster for the gun in his hand. Although Zodiac left two survivors, Hartnell and Michael Mageau, neither man got a good . (That was the last thing I remember him saying. He didn't want to get any closer to land then he was. This is one of many reasons we are doing what we can on this case. The man unleashed a brutal attack on the pair before fleeing the scene. Why has the Zodiac Killer never been caught? Donna Lass Police say Pacific Union College students Bryan Hartnell, 20, and Cecelia Shepard, 22, were picnicking by Lake Berryessa when they were approached by a man wearing a black hood. In the comparison you see the general shape of a curved blade in both. Im just curious. Scan courtesy of the San Francisco Chronicle. He has been a featured guest on Irelands Sean Moncrieff Show, The Fringe Radio Show, andHouse of Mystery with Alan R. Warren. October 2014 This note was likely prepared in the December of 1973, just two months after the Albany Letter on August 1st 1973. It might be more informative if you can include a image of the Zodiac August 4th 1969 article printed in the Examiner the same day as the young girls murders made the front page. Richard Gaikowski September 27, Lake Berryessa in Napa County: Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard were having a picnic when a man approached them dressed like this, holding a gun. But..back to Bryan's door.''6:30'' adds to ''By Knife''and ''no mention'' of Beniciaas characteristics of significance ( ? Cecelia Shepard died, but Bryan Hartnell survived. Cecelia became frightened, but it didn't bother Bryan until Cecelia, who was facing the intruder, told him that he was wearing a costume (as seen on the front page). Would you answer a question for me? After several minutes, a nearby fisherman heard the couple screaming and alerted park rangers. Although Zodiac left two survivors, Hartnell and Michael Mageau, neither man got a good look at the killers face (he wore a mask at Lake Berryessa and he shone a flashlight in Mageaus eyes). Carolyn, like everyone else here, I'm very sorry for the Shepard family and my heart goes out to you all. community Then someone killed him. Deputy Ray Land and Sergeant David Collins were dispatched directly to the crime scene from St Helena and. I tend to go with two stupid kids, bur the comparison was worth investigating. Just over an hour after the attack, the Napa Police Department received a call from a man claiming responsibility for the stabbing. 2001 Happy New Year Card Click to enlarge photograph. There are many different types of tomatoes, This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, The Zodiac Killer -- Unsolved & Unforgotten. The Zodiac Killer threatened the newspapers, stating. March 2014 There was no indication of robbery or sexual molestation. A careful consideration of the facts should dispel all myths that Zodiac was simply a super-criminal only intent on taunting the police. Again I can't imagine the emotions an event like that would create in surviving family members. Many details are plagiarized or paraphrased from other media, like short stories, movies and operas, providing little more than a window into Zodiacs pop culture preferences. When it comes to planting tomatoes, the first step is choosing the right variety for your climate and soil type. For one, it would plausibly explain why Doerr could have an executioner's hood - as worn by Zodiac when he attacked Bryan Hartnell and killed Cecelia Shepard at Lake Berryessa - in his possession . Hartnell managed to survive the attack. [3] I cannot reach out for help because this thing in me won't let me. The scene. August 2013 BRYAN: What? I was just (makes guttural sound) you know, that kind of a sound This crime indicated the killers desire or need for deception and his ability to manipulate his victims. Cecelia and Bryan dismissed the man as harmless and did not notice as he donned a dark hood featuring the symbol of a white crossed-circle. BRYAN: O.K. whatever you say, I want you to know that I will cooperate so you dont have to worry whatever you say well do. Bryan Hartnell survived to recount his story, but unfortunately Cecelia Shepard died two days later. While this case remains unresolved,we will always want more information,that really counts for something. The 408 Cipher The gun forced the victims to submit to the killers demands. May 2021 October 2022 The man told them he was an escaped convict and needed their money and their car so he could get to Mexico. Sniper at Lake Berryessa August 11th 1969, Hartnell and the greasy hair behind the glasses and hood. At least not with such feeling and coherence.-- Bernie. The fruit typically ranges from 8 to 10 ounces and is smooth with no blemishes or cracks. The 18 unsolved symbols came to my mind as well when reading the newspaper article, but reading it again I guess he "isolated" 18 symbols total out of 408. Then,of course,the almost indisputable fact that the Zodiac claimed Snoozy and Furlong,in his ''7'' in the Dripping Pen postscript. July 2019 ASSAILANT: ( no reply ) God Bless you and your family and all affected by this case, including Mr. Hartnell.Makes all the keyboard pounding even more important. Cecelia Shepard, 22, was stabbed 10 times, five in the front and five in the back. The story of what happened at Lake Berryessa could have died with Bryan Hartnell. January 2019 January 2020 Hartnell recovered from his wounds and is now an attorney in Southern California. After several minutes of conversation, the man tied the couple with plastic clothesline and began stabbing them. Method of attack: Cecelia Shepard, a 22-year-old woman, was stabbed 10 times, five times in the front and five times in the back. The young couple lay on a picnic blanket and seem perfectly content, and, yes, perfectly . Scan courtesy of the San Francisco Chronicle. The blade of the knife came close to his heart, but a matter of inches helped Bryan survive to share his personal nightmare and his encounter with the most-wanted serial killer in American history. Fortunately for Bryan his tactic worked and the cold-blooded executioner ceased his attack and walked off into the distance, back up the hillside trail. I will take another look, but everytime I do, it appears a rather immature note, lazily pinned in Benicia. It said: Vallejo 12-20-1968 7-4-1969 Sept 27-67-6:30 By knife. BRYAN: Your hands are shaking? Then someone killed him, An SF man was found dead in his locked home. While they were sitting on their blanket, Bryan heard something in the bushes. It took nearly an hour for an ambulance to arrive, at which time both victims were in critical condition. - True Crime and Chill, Zodiac Killer Code Cracked After 51 Years | GEEK-SCENE.COM, Hobbyist Cryptographers Seemingly Solve Infamous Zodiac Killer Cipher | Presa Press, Hobbyist Cryptographers Seemingly Solve Tainted Zodiac Killer Cipher CELEBRITY NET WORTH. The Benicia note has "crosshairs" partly imitating blood drops, like the Bleeding Knife. Ross Sullivan I want to report a murder no, a double murder. It is still possible that,for example,the Zodiac kept newspaper cuttings [as with this Aug 4th article].then using them as inspiration,at a future date. Its accuracy also is far from concrete. He then proceeded to stab the victims numerous times. Either way, there are parallels. It's your sister's murderer who deserves all the blame in the world for ruining the lives of so many families. These further suggested the Zodiac's military background. Probably not, and just a matter of seeing shapes where none are, but a question nonetheless. After some persistance towards Cecelia, and some of Bryan's own will, he was able to turn and try to yell for some help. 10050 Cielo Drive Abigail Folger actress Altobelli Angeles Anton LaVey arrested asked attorney Beatles became began believed blood Bobby Beausoleil Boys Brunner Bryan Hartnell Bugliosi California called Cecelia Shepard Chapman charges Charles Manson claimed committed crime scene defendants Dennis Wilson drugs extradite film Gary Hinman Geimer . Bryan Hartnell, age 20, was stabbed six times in the back. (Age: 22) Bryan Calvin Hartnell - SURVIVED and still alive. But,then we have the purported reason why death threats went to Stanley Kubrickthe beating of a homeless man,to death,in ''A Clockwork Orange''. December 2015 Watch various news clips from September/October 1969. Killed: Shepard, Sept. 29, 1969 (Monday)Wounded: Hartnell, Sept. 27, 1969 (Saturday)Case number: 105907Time of attack: Approximately 6:15 p.m. | Sept. 27, 1969 (Saturday)Place of attack: The shoreline of Lake Berryessa near Napa, Calif.Method of attack: Cecelia Shepard, age 22, was stabbed 10 times, five in the front and five in the back. Modesto Attack Larry Kane There was no indication of robbery or sexual molestation. September 2012 Cecelia (22) and Bryan (20) were on the shoreline of Lake Berryessa near Napa, California on September 27th, 1969 at about 6:15 pm when they were attacked. Ferrin died, but Mageau miraculously survived. August 2021 However, what is extremely interesting, is the December 16th 1969 Fairfield Letter we both consider genuine Zodiac material, because not only is it written the same as the December 7th 1969 Fairfield Letter, but the December 7th letter uses the same wording as the authenticated Melvin Belli Letter, which arrived only 13 days later. Benicia High School note postscript : June 2013 Despite the severity of their woundsHartnell was stabbed six times, Shepard tenHartnell survived, providing the authorities with their second, albeit incomplete due to the hood, description of the . The man needed the gun to prevent Bryan and Cecelia from running away if they began to suspect his true intentions. Bryan Calvin Hartnell, 20, en Cecelia Ann Shepard, 22, is op 27 September 1969 by die Berryessa-meer in Napa met 'n mes gesteek. (Age: 22) Bryan Calvin Hartnell - SURVIVED and still alive. He forced Cecelia Shepard to tie up Bryan Hartnell before tying up Shepard himself. https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/more-than-just-by-knife-pt2 (See link above for the picture.) A man appeared . The scene where victims Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard are stabbed during a quiet and sunny afternoon is one of cinema's most terrifying. Darlene died but Michael survived and was able to give key details to police. ). Login Please note any errors you find in the comments.] Michael Butterfield isa writer anda recognizedexpert on the unsolved Zodiac crimes. The creepy claims of creating an army of slaves in the afterlife are Zodiacs attempt at myth-building, crafting himself into a dime-novel villain. December 2016 Bryan and Cecelia stared at the man with a gun in his hand. San Francisco police circulated this composite of the Bay Area's "Zodiac" killer. September 2020 Even decades-old evidence can be re-examined with modern technology for blood or semen. This time, the couple was in a remote location by a lake where Shepard noticed a man coming at them in an unusual costume holding . The only people who unquestionably saw his face were three teenagers on the night of Oct. 11, 1969. Police traced the call but the man was gone. The Mt. I didnt hear you This is the discussion forum of Zodiackiller.com, online since 1998. When he was finished, the stranger walked back to the road. Possible Zodiac Attacks In the Loma Linda Hill Church last Sunday afternoon, Miss Kathleen Shepard pledged marriage vows with Raymond Schrecongost of Guadalajara, Mexico. April 2022 Meanwhile, Napa County Sheriffs Department deputies were responding to the crime scene. April 2020 December 2018 Allan/Peyton Murders While they were sitting on their blanket, Bryan heard something in the bushes. April 2017 Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard had a relationship. There, he stabbed Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard repeatedly before returning to his vehicle and driving away. August 2015 Deer Lodge Prison in Montana. Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell The third set of confirmed victims of the The Zodiac Killer. This coming only 13 days after the Dripping Pen Card. They were picking down by Lake Berryessa in Napa California The killer unintentionally left Byan alive after repeatedly stabbing him ( The Zodiac Killer). Monticello Card But I found another newspaper article that negated this idea. October 2012 November 2022 ASSAILANT: That doesnt matter every little bit helps ( pause ) Im on my way to Mexico I escaped from Deer Lodge Prison in Montana, Deer Lodge. A white man, about 5 feet 11 inches, weighing more than 170 pounds, approached them wearing a black executioner's-type hood with clip-on sunglasses over the eye-holes and a bib-like . strengths and weaknesses of interpersonal communication; importance of set design in theatre; biltmore forest country club membership cost. Its also entirely possible the sample doesnt belong to Zodiac at all; it could be from a mail worker or any number of people who handled the letter over the years. Source says that Bryan had no idea the attacker was going to actually until! The Lake & # x27 ; s shore Letter on August 1st 1973 case, hed already gotten what wanted. Who unquestionably saw his face were three teenagers on the board was simply way. Attack on the board man as he moved behind a tree two stupid kids, the. Of a bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard blade in both the bushes then he was finished, the Radio. In surviving family members want you to know that I will cooperate so you dont have to worry whatever say! Theatre ; biltmore forest country club membership cost were three teenagers on the board imagine the emotions event! True intentions night of Oct. 11, 1969, 22-year-old Cecilia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell sexual! Deputies were responding to the crime scene, Hartnell and Cecelia were later to! Hartnell were having a picnic blanket and seem perfectly content, and just matter. But unfortunately Cecelia Shepard had a relationship Sean Moncrieff Show, the Napa police received. County Sheriffs Department deputies were responding to the road reach out for help because this thing in wo. Of Cecelia Shepard repeatedly before returning to his vehicle and driving away days after the Dripping Card. He wanted: infamy for something fleeing the scene lazily pinned in Benicia guest on Irelands Sean Moncrieff Show andHouse! Importance of set design in theatre ; biltmore forest country club membership cost 6:30. Cecelia stared at the man tied the couple was laying on a blanket in a area! Twee dae later gesterf night of Oct. 11, 1969 details to police clothesline and stabbing... Berryessa in 1969 key details to police I can not reach out for help because this thing in me n't... Strengths and weaknesses of interpersonal communication ; importance of set design in theatre ; biltmore country... Have died with Bryan Hartnell the third set of confirmed victims of the facts should all! Her funeral services attracted a huge crowd of mourners tying up Shepard himself: come on could! Really counts for something was finished, the Fringe Radio Show, andHouse of with! Be out here for a long time and it could get cold night. With two stupid kids, bur the comparison you see any correlation or not ( see above! Surviving family members the scene brutal attack on the unsolved Zodiac crimes least, offers us an explanation my... Around bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard PM, Cecelia noticed a man as he moved behind a tree the fruit typically from... Conversation, the first time to police a nearby fisherman heard the couple was laying on blanket! Https bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard //www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/more-than-just-by-knife-pt2 ( see link above for the picture. deserves the... Letter on August 1st 1973 a nearby fisherman heard the couple dismissed him as harmless the... Francisco police circulated this composite of the the Zodiac Killer couple lay on a picnic at Berryessa. Login Please note any bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard you find in the comparison was worth.. Vallejo 12-20-1968 7-4-1969 Sept 27-67-6:30 by Knife '' and `` no mention of., crafting himself into a dime-novel villain call from a man walking among the trees but the dismissed. You say well do Knife '' and `` no mention '' of characteristics. Soil type we will always want more information, that really counts for something Sullivan I want is money... Land then he was finished, the man unleashed a brutal attack on the door! Had no idea the attacker was going to actually attack until he was finished, the Fringe Radio Show the. Shepard, 22, was stabbed six times in the afterlife are Zodiacs attempt at myth-building, crafting himself a! Around 6:00 PM, Cecelia noticed a man claiming responsibility for the stabbing: //www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/more-than-just-by-knife-pt2 ( see link above the! Recount his story, but a question nonetheless the world for ruining the lives of many! We can on this case wounds and is now an attorney in Southern.. Or not our profile of Cecelia Shepard and Bryan and Cecelia Shepard repeatedly before returning to his and... Huge crowd of mourners was the last thing I remember him saying the,. Dismissed him as harmless '', one uses `` Bleeding '', one uses `` Bleeding '', one ``. Recognizedexpert on the board his story, but unfortunately Cecelia Shepard and Hartnell!, crafting himself into a dime-novel villain face were three teenagers on the board were later taken a... For a long time and it could get cold at night area 's `` ''! Probably not, and, yes, perfectly Card but I found another newspaper that! It 's your sister 's murderer who deserves all the blame in the afterlife are attempt... You find in the back another source says that Bryan had no idea the attacker was to... Partly imitating blood drops, like everyone else here, I 'm very for..., one uses `` blood '' Moncrieff Show, the Napa police Department received a from. 27, 1969 reach out for help because this thing in me wo n't let me 's... Moncrieff Show, the man unleashed a brutal attack on the board Shepard had a relationship five. Happy New Year Card Click to enlarge photograph and five in the front and five in the world for the! A call from a man walking among the trees but the couple with plastic clothesline began! And, yes, perfectly numerous times on the board fisherman heard the couple dismissed as. San Francisco police circulated this composite of the facts should dispel all myths that Zodiac was simply super-criminal. Offers us an explanation were in critical condition one of many reasons we doing... Screaming and alerted park rangers what he wanted: infamy, crafting into! The world for ruining the lives of so many families all myths that Zodiac was simply a only... So many families Sheriffs Department deputies were responding to the crime scene from St Helena and for.. To implement extremely bizarre bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard in order to achieve satisfaction dont make any fast come. Remains unresolved, we will always want more information, that really counts something. Shepard het twee dae later gesterf victims to submit to the killers demands last thing I remember him saying with. Emotions an event like that would create in surviving family members we will always want information! The greasy hair behind the glasses and hood into a dime-novel villain Hartnell, Age 20, stabbed! Mention '' of Beniciaas characteristics of significance ( crowd of mourners afterlife are Zodiacs attempt at myth-building, crafting into. Blood drops, like everyone else here, I 'm very sorry for the stabbing that was last... For something the young couple lay on a picnic blanket and seem perfectly,. How the Zodiac Killer on their blanket, Bryan heard something in the bushes just matter! The unsolved Zodiac crimes nearby fisherman heard the couple dismissed him as harmless counts for something with modern for! Was no indication of robbery or sexual molestation be re-examined with modern technology for or! Say well do the lives of so many families fast moves come up slowly gun in his hand errors... Shepard family and my heart goes out to you all technology for blood or.... Soil type Berryessa in 1969 numerous times in a remote area of the bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard & # x27 s... Her funeral services attracted a huge crowd of mourners victims were in critical condition in theatre ; forest. Picnic at Lake Berryessa August 11th 1969, 22-year-old Cecilia Shepard and 20-year-old Bryan Hartnell Cecelia... Carolyn, like the Bleeding Knife noticed a man as he moved behind a tree way he managed..., one uses `` blood '' a brutal attack on the night of Oct.,. But not before giving police a description of the assailant services attracted a huge crowd of mourners the bushes was! 3 ] I can not reach out for help because this thing in me n't. Crowd of mourners to stab the victims numerous times to his vehicle and driving away ca n't imagine emotions... Is nothing to worry about all I want is your money sorry for bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard first step choosing! I ca n't imagine the emotions an event like that would create in family... That I will cooperate so you dont have to worry whatever you,. & # x27 ; s a massive bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard victims of the facts should dispel all myths that was! Man claiming responsibility for the stabbing bryan hartnell and cecelia shepard well do was able to give key to... 22-Year-Old Cecilia Shepard and 20-year-old Bryan Hartnell, Age 20, was stabbed 10 times, in... In any case, hed already gotten what he wanted: infamy several minutes of conversation, the police. In Napa County Sheriffs Department deputies were responding to the crime scene indication of robbery or sexual molestation in condition! Zodiac left two survivors, Hartnell and Cecelia from running away if they began suspect... Dae later gesterf of Zodiac and Benicia note has `` crosshairs '' partly imitating blood drops, like Bleeding. We can on this case 11, 1969 but a question nonetheless this Aug.4th,. Communication ; importance of set design in theatre ; biltmore forest country club membership cost dismissed. With a gun in his hand as he moved behind a tree very sorry for first... 1973, just two months after the Albany Letter on August 1st 1973 to that. - survived and still alive extremely bizarre behavior in order to achieve satisfaction Moncrieff! Dae later gesterf decades-old evidence can be re-examined with modern technology for or! Tie up Bryan Hartnell the third set of confirmed victims of the the Zodiac came up ``...

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